There’s been a lot of Bloggernacle discussion of late about the Church’s “accidental” news re-release, that touts itself as “the gold standard” when it comes to how the Church handles sexual and child abuse cases. Apparently the Church had already published this article in 2010 and then republished it again last week as a current news release. The Church claims there was a “glitch” in their system and that it did not intend to re-publish the article.
Some are suspicious, however, that this release was no accident at all and that the Church has some news agenda it’s trying to push or a news story it wants to get ahead of. Utah has the highest rate of child sex abuse in the nation after all, as one blogger reminded us this week. In my experience with how the Church PR machine operates, I can almost guarantee the Church is feeling vulnerable on this issue and wants to paint a different picture to the world than the awful reality.
On one occasion years ago I spoke with a Church PR representative by phone at Church Headquarters. I was working on a research paper and was very surprised when this brother stated that the Church often intentionally leaks news stories in order to provide context for a message it wants to get out. The leak is made to seem to be a mistake. The Church then conveniently responds to the leaked story with its canned message and/or simply relishes that it got its story out when it wanted to. I don’t know if this is a common practice throughout the PR industry, but as a young grad student not living in Utah and not from Utah, my initial reaction was how dishonest this seemed and I was surprised that the Church would employ such underhanded tactics. I thought my church would be straight-forward and without guile.
Perhaps the Church’s most recent leak or re-release, as it’s been called, was in hopes to get ahead of this very troubling story that just came out about emeritus GA, Elder Lynn A. Mickelsen. The video below is about 14 minutes long and if nothing else it demonstrates the influence the Church has on Utah lawyers, judges, law enforcement and LDS clergy. The story is unnervingly credible. I highly recommend you take the time to watch it.
As a bishop, I saw firsthand how the Church actually handles child and sexual abuse. I was required to call the LDS Hotline on several occasions. In one such instance I was transferred directly to Kirton & McConkie, the law firm that represents the Church. The advice I received was actually outstanding — aligning with doctrine and scripture. I was shocked, however, when the counsel that I was given was not followed by the Church. It quickly became obvious to me in this instance that the Church was only looking to avoid embarrassment and cared nothing about helping victims or reforming perpetrators.
These types of experiences have helped me trust less in the arm of the flesh and have caused me to turn towards God and His Son for comfort. May good people everywhere stand as witnesses of Their Names, especially in defense of those too weak and tender to defend themselves.
Years ago there was a man in our ward that was on the sex offender website. His target was lyoung girls. He was married. He was put into the primary as a teacher. I was outraged. I went with my concerns to the Primary president and got no where. I got the “blow off”. I had a discussion with my bishop, who did the same blow off. I was really concerned at that point, being the mother of three girls, none of which were in the primary, as they were older. I told other mothers in the ward, who were upset as well. They went to the bishop with their concerns and nothing was ever done. To this day I will never forget how strange that was.
I’ve lived with issues re:sexual abuse in my own family and extended family. I was told by leaders I was uncharitable when I supported what through RCMP involvement I knew was truth. The leaders wanted me to be forgiving and attend the temple with my spouse. I stated humbly and clearly I could not offend God that way. My recommend was pulled, the abusive spouse attended sessions.
My painful tears during that season graciously brought the voice of the Lord to me.
I suffered an emotional breakdown and when in hospital my stake president stood at the foot of my bed demanding I pull myself together and not cause any further embarassment to all involved. Then he threatened more consequences.
The daughter involved tried suicide more than once, but has since (through non LDS counselling) has recovered, married in the temple and has children.
Saints are human and leaders are saints. If I could be deceived by my spouse for years, I had to give tolerance to leaders who were also being deceived.
Life is more than a movie, it is a drama. We may not win academy awards, but we hope for the Celestial Kingdom.
2 Peter Chpt 1 sets out the requirements for our association with diety. I keep hoping I will merit that eventually.
How long has this video been out? I watched the movie, Spotlight, recently and was thinking to myself when a story like this would come out against the LDS hierarchy. I didn’t need to wait long.
Can you answer questions about the loyalty oath discussed in the video? Do all bishops and stake presidents take it or is it just for prominent members? Is it the same oath that we used to take in the temple that was removed in the 1990’s? Does that mean that all us that attended the temple pre-1990 have taken that oath or is it a different, personal oath for the person taking it?
I think it’s referencing the pre-1990 oaths in the temple. Where I think this point may go too far is to assume that those who took this “oath” really understood the oath. BUT I will say that the effect of loyalty is the same with or without the oath. Loyalty to the Brethren is indeed the last standing doctrine.
Date: July 19, 1990
To: Strengthening Church Members Committee
From: Bishop Glenn L. Pace
Subject: Ritualistic child abuse
Pursuant to the Committee’s request; I am writing this memorandum to pass along what I have learned about ritualistic child abuse. Hopefully, it will be of some value to you as you continue to monitor the problem. You have already received the LDS Social Services report on Satanism dated May 24, 1989, a report from Brent Want [U.S. Attorney General, Utah District], and a memorandum from myself dated October 20, 1989 in response to Brothers Ward’s report. Therefore, I will limit this writing to information not contained in those papers.
I have met with sixty victims. That number could be twice or three times as many if I did not discipline myself to only one meeting per week. I have not wanted my involvement with this issue to become a handicap in fulfilling my assigned responsibilities. ON the other hand, I felt someone needed to pay the price to obtain an intellectual and spiritual conviction as the seriousness of this problem within the Church.
Of the sixty victims with whom I have met, fifty-three are female and seven are male. Eight are children. The abuse occurred in the following places: (Utah 37), Idaho (3), California (4), Mexico, (2) and other places (14). Fifty-three victims are currently living in the State of Utah. All sixty individuals are members of the Church. Forty-five victims allege witnessing and/or participating in human sacrifice. The majority were abused by relatives, often their parents. All have developed psychological problems and most have been diagnosed as having multiple personality disorder or some other form of dissociative disorder.
Ritualistic child abuse is the most hideous of all child abuse. The basic objective is premeditated—to systematically and methodically torture and terrorize children until they are forced to dissociate. The torture is not a consequence of the loss of temper, but the execution of well-planned, well-thought out rituals often performed by close relative. The only escape for the children is to dissociate. This will develop a new personality to enable them to endure various forms of abuse. When the episode is over, the core personality is again in control and the individual is not conscious of what happened. Dissociation also serves the purposes of the occult because the children have no day-to-day memory of the atrocities. They go through adolescence and early adulthood with no active memory of what is taking place. Oftentimes they continue in rituals through their teens and early twenties, unaware of their involvement. Many individuals with whom I have spoken have served missions and it has not been until later that they begin to remember. One individual has memories of participating in rituals while serving as a full-time missionary.
The Victims lead relatively normal lives, but the memories are locked up in a compartment in their minds and surface in various ways. They don’t know how to cope with the emotions because they can’t find the source. As they become adults and move into another environment, something triggers the memories and, consequently, flashbacks and/or nightmares occur. One day they will have been living a normal life and the next they will be in a mental hospital in a fetal position. The memories of their early childhood are recalled in so much detail that they once again feel the pain that caused the dissociation in the first place.
There are two reasons why adults can remember with such detail events that happened in their past. First, the terror they experienced was so stark that it was indelibly placed in their mind. Second, the memory was compartmentalized in a certain portion of the mind and was not subjected to the dilution of experiences of ensuing years. When it is tapped, it is as fresh as if it happened yesterday.
The memories seem to come in layers. For example, the first memory might be of incest: then they remember robes and candles; next they realize that their father or mother or both were present when they were being abused. Another layer will be memory of seeing other people hurt and even killed. Then they remember having seen babies killed. Another layer is realizing that they participated in the sacrifices. One of the most painful memories may be that they even sacrificed their own baby. With each layer of memory comes another set of problems and which they must deal.
Some have said that the witnesses to this type of treatment cannot be trusted because of the victim’s unstable condition and because practically all of them have some kind of dissociative disorder; in fact, the stories are so bizarre as to raise serious credibility questions. The irony is that one of the objectives of the occult is to create multiple personalities within the children in order to keep the “secretes.” They live in society without society having any idea that something is wrong since the children and teenagers don’t even realize there is another life occurring in darkness and in secret. However, when sixty witnesses testify to the same type of torture and murder, it becomes impossible for me, personally, not to believe them.
I mention multiple personalities because the spiritual healing which must take place in the lives of these victims cannot happen without their priesthood leaders understanding something about it.
The spiritual indoctrination which takes place during the physical abuse is one of the most difficult to overcome. In addition to experiencing stark terror and pain, the children are also instructed in satanic doctrine. Everything is completely reversed: white is black, black is white, good is bad, bad is good, Satan is going to rule during the Millennium.
Children are put in a situation where they believe they are going to die—such as being buried alive or being placed in a plastic bag and immersed in water. Prior to do doing so, the abuser
tells ~ the child to pray to Jesus to see if He will save her. Imagine a seven year old girl, having been told she is going to die, praying to Jesus to save her and nothing happens—then at the last moment she is rescued, but the person saving her is a representative of Satan. He uses this experience to convince her that the only person who really cares about her is Satan, She is Satan’s child and she might as well become loyal to him.
Just before or shortly after their baptism into the Church, children are baptized by blood into the satanic order which is meant to cancel out their baptism into the Church. They will be asked if they understand or hate ever felt the Holy Ghost. When they reply that they have, they will be reminded of the horrible things they have participated in and will be told that they have become a son (or daughter) of perdition and, therefore, have no chance of being saved or loved by our Father in heaven of Jesus.
All of this indoctrination takes place with whichever personality has emerged to endure the physical, mental, and spiritual pain. Consequently, there develops within each of these individuals the makings of what I call a civil war. As the memories begin to surface, there are personalities who feel they have given themselves to Satan, and there is no hope of forgiveness. The core person is an active member of the Church, often with temple recommend. As integration takes place, the civil war begins. Sometimes, in an interview, personalities of the dark side have come out. They are petrified or perhaps full of hate for me and what I represent. Eventually those personalities need to be dealt with spiritually and psychologically.
Most victims are suicidal. They have been brainwashed with drugs, hypnosis, and other means to become suicidal as soon as they start to tell the secrets. They have been threaten all of their lives that if they don’t do what they are told their brother of sister will die, their parents will die, their house will be burned, or they themselves will be killed. They have every reason to believe it since they have seen people killed. They believe they might as well kill themselves instead of wait for the occult to do it. Some personalities feel it is the right thing to do.
The purpose of this detail is to stress the complexity of psychological and spiritual therapy for these individuals. Our priesthood leaders, when faced with such cases, are understandably at a loss of how to respond. Orthodox counsel is completely ineffective. For example, some victims have been told that this all happened in their past and that they should put it behind them and get on with their lives. This is just not possible. Part of the spiritual therapy necessary is for priesthood leaders to assist with the conversion process of the personalities who have been indoctrinated into Satanism. Victims must integrate their personalities so that they can function as whole persons and be able to deal with their problems and then get on with their lives. Often, some of the parts will begin to act out—perhaps promiscuously—and a good intentioned priesthood leader, following the General Handbook of Instructions, will disfellowship or excommunicate an individual. All this does is reinforce the satanic indoctrination of the victims that they are no good.
I’m sorry to say that many of the victims have had their first flashbacks while attending the temple for the first time. The occult along the Wasatch Front uses the doctrine of the Church to their advantage. For example, the verbiage and gestures are used in a ritualistic ceremony in a very debased and often bloody manner. When the victim goes to the temple and hears the exact words, horrible memories are triggered. We have recently been disturbed with members of the Church who have talked about the temple ceremony. Compared to what is happening in the occult along the Wasatch Front, these are very minor infractions. The perpetrators are also living a dual life. Many are temple recommend holders. This leads to another reason why the Church needs to consider the seriousness of these problems. In affect, the Church is being used.
I go out of my way to not let the victims give me the name of the perpetrators. I have told them that my responsibility is to help them with spiritual healing and that the name of perpetrators should be given to therapists and law enforcement officers. However, they have told me the positions of the Church of members who are perpetrators. Among others, they are Young women leaders, Young Men leaders, bishops, a patriarch, a stake president, temple workers, and members of the Tabernacle Choir. These accusations are not coming from individuals who think they recognized someone, but from those who have been abused by people they know, in many cases their own family members.
Whatever the form of abuse our main concern is for the victims, but there are legal ramifications. We are disturbed to receive reports that a scoutmaster has abused the boys in his troop. It is not difficult to imagine what would happen if we learn that a bishop of stake president has participated in the abominations ritualistic child abuse. Not only do some of the perpetrators represent a cross section of the Mormon culture, but sometime the abuse has taken place in our own meetinghouses.
I don’t pretend to know how prevalent the problem is. All I know is that I have met with 60 victims. Assuming each one comes from a coven of 13>we are talking about the involvement of 800 or so right here on the Wasatch Front. Obviously, I have only seen those coming forth to get help. They are in their twenties and thirties for the most part. I can only assume that it is expanding geometrically and I am horrified the numbers represented by the generation who are no children and teenagers.
Another reason for concern is that there are several doctrinal issues that need to be resolved. The Church and society in general are very skeptical as to whether the occult and its activities do exist. There is not First Presidency statement relative to some of the doctrinal issues: What does a priesthood leader tell individuals who come forward and say that they have participated in these rituals—which may include human sacrifice? Should they have a temple recommend? Will they ever be forgiven? There are questions regarding free agency and accountability. Is a person who has been raised in an occult from infancy accountable for things that take place in a dissociated state, even though those acts were committed after the age of eight? I have formed my own opinions to these questions and have done the best I can. However, I don’t have the mantle to make these doctrinal and policy decisions. I have relied on the mantle of a bishop regarding discernment and being a common Judge.
The few priesthood leaders who have had to face these issues are crying out for help because they don’t want to give their own opinions and yet there is no place to go for an answer. A bishop will go to his stake president who says he doesn’t believe it is happening and that the member is just crazy. The stake president might go to an Area Presidency who will react in a similar way. Most people are afraid to surface it to the First Presidency for fear of getting the same reaction and don’t want to appear crazy themselves for asking the questions.
I hope you will excuse me if I am being presumptuous, but I am concluding this paper with scriptures I feel support my belief that these activities are real and cannot be ignored.
The Things I have been writing about go back to Cain and Abel.
And Satan said unto Cain: Swear unto me by thy throat, and if thou tell it thou shalt die and swear they brethren by their heads, and by the living God, that they tell it not: for if they tell it, they shall surely die; and this that they father may not know it and this day I will deliver they brother Abel into thine hands
And Satan swear unto Cain that he would do according to his commands. And all these things were done in secret.
And Cain said: Truly I am Mahan, the master of this great secret, that I may murder and get gain. Wherefore Cain was called Master Mahan, and he gloried in his wickedness. (Moses 5:29–31)
All of the experiences I have heard about have to do with secrecy, swearing not to tell, murdering to get gain and power:
Wherefore Lamech, being angry, slew him, not like unto Cain, his brother Abel, for the sake of getting gain; but he slew him for the oath’s sake.
For, from the days of Cain, there was a secret combination, and their works were in the dark, and they knew every man his brother. (Moses 5:50–51)
And then in Moses 6:15 we learn that as people began to fill the earth, so did these secret works:
And the children of men were numerous upon all the face of the land. And in those days Satan had great dominion among men, and raged in their hearts and from thenceforth came wars and bloodshed; and a man’s hand was against his own brother, in administering death, because of secret works, seeking for power.
The Book of Mormon is replete with descriptions of these secret Murderous combinations as well as prophecies that they will always be with us:
And our spirits must have become like unto him, and we become devils, angels to a devil, to be shut out from the presence of our God, and to remain with the father of lies, in misery, like unto himself; yea, to that being who beguiled our first parents, who transformeth himself nigh unto an angel of light, and stirreth up the children of men unto secret combinations of murder and all manner of secret works of darkness. (2 Nephi 9:9)
Wherefore, for this cause, that my covenants may be fulfilled which I have made unto the children of men, that I will do unto them while they are in the flesh, I must needs destroy the secret works of darkness, and of murders, and of abominations. (2 Nephi 10:15)
And there are also secret combinations, even as in times of old, according to the combinations of the devil, for he is the founder of all these things; yea, the founder of murder, and works of darkness; yea, and he leadeth them by the neck with a flaxen cord, until he bindeth them with his strong cords forever. (2 Nephi 26:22)
In Alma, we find that the Lord commanded some of the prophets not to write any of the secret works, especially of the secret oaths, so that they would not become known by generations to follow, but that they might be warned that they do exist:
And now, I will speak unto you concerning those twenty-four plates, that ye keep them, that the mysteries and the works of darkness, and their secret works, or the secret works of those people who have been destroyed, may be made manifest unto this people; yea, all their murders, and robbings, and their plunderings, and all their wickedness and abominations, may be made manifest unto this people; yea, and that ye preserve these interpreters…
I will bring forth out of darkness unto light all their secret works and their abominations; and except they repent I will destroy them from off the face of the earth; and I will bring to light all their secrets and abominations, unto every nation that shall hereafter possess the land.
And now, my son, we see that they did not repent; therefore they have been destroyed, and thus far the word of God has been fulfilled; yea, their secret abominations have been brought out of darkness and made known unto us. And now, my son, I command you that ye retain all their oaths, and their covenants, and their agreements in their secret abominations; yea, and all their signs and their wonders ye shall keep from this people, that they know them not, lest peradventure they should fall into darkness also and be destroyed.
For behold, there is a curse upon all this land, that destruction shall come upon all those workers of darkness, according to the power of God, when they are fully ripe; therefore I desire that this people might not be destroyed. (Alma 37:21, 25–28)
In Helaman, the name of Gadianton is introduced and becomes descriptive throughout the Book of Mormon relative to the secret combinations.
But behold, Kishkumen, who had murdered Pahoran, did lay wait to destroy Helaman also; and he was upheld by his band, who had entered into a covenant that no one should know his wickedness.
For there was one Gadianton, who was exceedingly expert in many words, and also in his craft, to carry on the secret work of murder and of robbery; therefore he became the leader of the band of Kishkumen…
And when the servant of Helaman had known all the heart of Kishkumen, and how that it was his object to murder, and also that it was the object of all those who belonged to his band to murder, and to rob, and to gain power, (and this was their secret plan, and their combination) the servant of Helaman said unto Kishkumen: Let us go forth unto the judgment-seat. (Helaman 2:3–4, 8)
It was true then as it is now that they things were not known by the general populace or by the government:
And it came to pass in the *forty and ninth year of the reign of the judges, there was continual peace established in the land, all save it were the secret combinations which Gadianton the robber had established in the more settled parts of the land, which at that time were not known unto those who were at the head of government; therefore they were not destroyed out of the land. (Helaman 3:23)
In chapter 6, we learn that in spite of the Lord’s command to the prophets not to write these things, Satan is capable, and always has been, of revealing his secretes to his followers just as the Lord has revealed His will to the prophets.
And now behold, those murderers and plunderers were a band who had been formed by Kishkumen and Gadianton. And now it had come to pass that there were many, even among the Nephites, of Gadianton’s band. But behold, they were more numerous among the more wicked part of the Lamanites. And they were called Gadianton’s robbers and murderers.
But behold, Satan did stir up the hearts of the more part of the Nephites, insomuch that they did unite with those bands of robbers, and did enter into their covenants and their oaths, that they would protect and preserve one another in whatsoever difficult circumstances they should be placed, that they should not suffer for their murders, and their plunderings, and their stealings.
And it came to pass that they did have their signs, yea, their secret signs, and their secret words; and this that they might distinguish a brother who had entered into the covenant, that whatsoever wickedness his brother should do he should not be injured by his brother, nor by those who did belong to his band, who had taken this covenant.
And thus they might murder, and plunder, and steal, and commit whoredoms and all manner of wickedness, contrary to the laws of their country and also the laws of their God.
And whosoever of those who belonged to their band should reveal unto the world of their wickedness and their abominations, should be tried, not according to the laws of their country, but according to the laws of their wickedness, which had been given by Gadianton and Kishkumen.
Now behold, it is these secret oaths and covenants which Alma commanded his son should not go forth unto the world, lest they should be a means of bringing down the people unto destruction.
Now behold, those secret oaths and covenants did not come forth unto Gadianton from the records which were delivered unto Helaman; but behold, they were put into the heart of Gadianton by that same being who did entice our first parents to partake of the forbidden fruit—
Yea, it is that same being who put it into the heart of Gadianton to still carry on the work of darkness, and of secret murder; and he has brought it forth from the beginning of man even down to this time.
And behold, it is he who is the author of all sin. And behold, he doth carry on his works of darkness and secret murder, and doth hand down their plots, and their oaths, and their covenants, and their plans of awful wickedness, from generation to generation according as he can get hold upon the hearts of the children of men. (Helaman 6:18, 21–26, 29–30.)
In light of this scripture, it is naïve for us to think these things would not exist in our own generation. We know this is the last dispensation, the dispensation of the fullness of times. Surely Satan would not “pass” on this most important dispensation.
In Helaman 8:1 we learn that people in high places were members of the Gadianton band and secret combinations:
AND now it came to pass that when Nephi had said these words, behold, there were men who were judges, who also belonged to the secret band of Gadianton, and they were angry, and they cried out against him, saying unto the people: Why do ye not seize upon this man and bring him forth, that he may be condemned according to the crime which he has done?
We have allegations to indicate that this is true of people in high places today in both the Church and the government who are leading this dual life. The secret combinations were mentioned all through the Book of Mormon. In Mormon 1:18–19 we read that these Gadianton robbers were still alive and well and functioning:
And these Gadianton robbers, who were among the Lamanites, did infest the land, insomuch that the inhabitants thereof began to hide up their treasures in the earth; and they became slippery, because the Lord had cursed the land, that they could not hold them, nor retain them again.
And it came to pass that there were sorceries, and witchcrafts, and magics; and the power of the evil one was wrought upon all the face of the land, even unto the fulfilling of all the words of Abinadi, and also Samuel the Lamanite.
In Mormon 8:27 there is a prophecy that secret combinations will be among us in our time:
And it shall come in a day when the blood of saints shall cry unto the Lord, because of secret combinations and the works of darkness.
The extent of the evil that mankind will perpetrate on another is told in Moroni 9:10:
And after they had done this thing, they did murder them in a most cruel manner, torturing their bodies even unto death; and after they have done this, they devour their flesh like unto wild beasts, because of the hardness of their hearts; and they do it for a token of bravery.
Many of us have read this all of our lives and click our tongues at how awful it would be to live in such a time. Those victims with who I have spoken testify to these things going on all around us today. In Ether we are told that they will exist amongst us, the gentiles, and we are also warned that we should do something about it:
And now I, Moroni, do not write the manner of their oaths and combinations, for it hath been made known unto me that they are had among all people, and they are had among the Lamanites.
And they have caused the destruction of this people of whom I am now speaking, and also the destruction of the people of Nephi.
And whatsoever nation shall uphold such secret combinations, to get power and gain, until they shall spread over the nation, behold, they shall be destroyed; for the Lord will not suffer that the blood of his saints, which shall be shed by them, shall always cry unto him from the ground for vengeance upon them and yet he avenge them not.
Wherefore, O ye Gentiles, it is wisdom in God that these things should be shown unto you, that thereby ye may repent of your sins, and suffer not that these murderous combinations shall get above you, which are built up to get power and gain—and the work, yea, even the work of destruction come upon you, yea, even the sword of the justice of the Eternal God shall fall upon you, to your overthrow and destruction if ye shall suffer these things to be.
Wherefore, the Lord commandeth you, when ye shall see these things come among you that ye shall awake to a sense of your awful situation, because of this secret combination which shall be among you; or wo be unto it, because of the blood of them who have been slain; for they cry from the dust for vengeance upon it, and also upon those who built it up. (Ether 8:20–24)
In summary, we live in the last dispensation of the fullness of times and Satan is here with his secret combinations in all of the ugliness that existed in previous dispensations. The scriptures prophesy to that reality. I also believe that the scriptures cited and many others that could be quoted argue against our being passive about the problem. I don’t want to be known as an alarmist or a fanatic on the issue. Now that I have put what I have learned in writing to you, I feel the issue is in the right court. I hope to take a low profile on the subject and get on with the duties which I have been formally assigned. This is not to say I would not be willing to be of service. Over the last eighteen months I have acquired a compassionate love and respect fort the victims who are fighting for the safety of their physical lives and, more importantly, their souls.
I also saw the video and it has only been on YouTube since Feb, 30th and as of today it has 20,472 views. I found the link on Facebook and I’m sure it set off a fire storm of views. So, I am not surprised at all for the Hmmm “slip up” by the Churches PR department in re-releasing this 2010 new release.
However, I found the information on the video to be quite confusing and a little misleading. I’m sure that he was referring to the pre-1990 temple oaths. As far as I can find out, special oaths, the way he explain them, are not taken by bishops and other leaders as suggested in the video. However, we do made oaths of loyalty but they are closeted in the covenant we make concerning “Building up of the Kingdom of God and The Establishment of Zion.
Although, I believe the basic information this man has revealed is correct, I question his motives for making this video. Why reveal this information to the world at this time? Is it out of concern for others who may be facing similar experiences or is it a way to involve others in his personal vendetta? Certainly this cannot go well for those in his family whom he claims he is trying to protect.
Personally, I don’t think I would sacrifice one of the members of my family to bring such claims to the attention of the masses. However, I don’t walk in his shoes either.
What ever his reasons are… it cannot go well for the Church. It’s like opening Pandora’s Box as every Lucy, Suzy and Sam will be coming out of woodwork to tell their story.
Is the Church in crisis mode? Ya think?
Opps… I meant “It has only been on YouTube since Feb. 13th. Slip of the fingers.
I understand where he is coming from because here is the so-called Lord’s Church that is filled with evil and apostate leaders that are ruining the lives of members. I understand perfectly why this guy is putting this out there. The injustice that is abundant in the courts and in the Church is breathtaking. The Church is losing it’s membership now at a rapid rate. All the leaders can do now is try to cover up their corruption.
I think you are right about the oath. It was taken in the temple many years ago. But you have to realize that the Lord isn’t going to hold you to such an oath when the Church has lapsed into apostasy and is no more. I often wonder too if Brigham Young added that oath to the ceremony after the death of Joseph Smith. In any event it’s all been taken out now and of no consequence. Rocky.
I shared this post with a few friends of mine with a heavy heart. I am bewildered by our need to have covered up this thing. Cover Ups come from fear and false traditions. One of my friends responded appropriately with love:
The wreckage must be incredible in that family, and its just getting started. Who gained? The devils side did for sure. If we hate Elder Mickelson, we have years, and years more, of personal destruction we can revel in. This 2003 conference talk by Elder Mickelsen seems kind of telling. He was kind of admitting his dark indiscretions over the pulpit. https://www.lds.org/general-conference/2003/10/the-atonement-repentance-and-dirty-linen?lang=eng. Was he begging us then not to call him a mataperro? Don’t we kind of weep for everyone involved? — H
Hello again and I’m sorry.
I’ve been doing some digging on this matter and there’s something very wrong on both sides, but the accuser has done worse than what he alleges in my opinion. It’s time to let the dead bury the dead.
Care to elaborate?
If you can, please forgive me, and above all else know I have compassion for Mr. Karren’s daughters. Mr Karren, having been wronged and robbed, has now taken vengeance upon himself which is the purview of God only. Mataperro, and all who knowingly aided him, will answer to God without question. Rabbi Eliezer said the Jews have an ancient understanding of character assassination in that when a person embarrasses another in public, he loses his share in the world to come. That is because character assassination is like unto the murder of the body. In this sad, sad case, a wronged man’s once beloved wife of his children, at the very least, has had her reputation murdered and with hers goes the father of the girls and with those parents do the girls lose theirs and all others involved. May God bless Mr Karren to stop his campaign now and turn back to his maker for redress.
Jonathan, One of the signs of the apostasy of the Church is injustice. Yes Mr Karren is putting out information about the utter injustice that is going on in the Church today. Not only has he been wrong by the Church but also in the court system. I think he is quite justified to point out the utter hypocrisy of this apostate leaders. There are more GA’s that are involved in this crime than just Mr. Mickelson. I won’t call him an elder because the Church doesn’t have any priesthood anymore after giving the blacks the priesthood 37 1/2 years ago contrary to revelation given in the Pearl of Great Price. But I diverge.
Isaiah see it a little bit different than you do – Isaiah 1:17 Learn to do good: demand justice, stand up for the oppressed; plead the cause of the fatherless, appeal on behalf of the widow.
So how is Karren suppose to demand justice without making an outcry that these guys are criminals and frauds? i do believe God will take vengeance on Mickelsen and he will go to hell to suffer for what he has done. I am glad that Karren pointing out what is going on behind closed doors in the Church court system and in the Church run judicial system in this state. Rocky
I hesitated on whether or not to post this. I’m a faithful LDS member whom has struggled inwardly over so many things I’ve seen since joining the Church. Things that I’ve only seen because of Callings I’ve held or processes I’ve gone through.
When I was in College (Provo), I briefly dated a young for a short time. He seemed like the complete package and things were going great. I knew the other shoe was going to drop because he was in his mid 20’s and not married (this is Provo we’re talking about!). He took me out to dinner one night to tell me some things that he felt I needed to know. Prior to serving his Mission he was heavily addicted to Pornography. He worked with a Bishop through the necessary repentance process and was able to serve. While on his mission he was struggling with withdrawals. One night while at a Families home for Dinner, his companion was in the Kitchen helping the family with Dinner while he sat in the other room with their 2 year old daughter whom he ended up molesting. He told me that the family was asked if they wanted to press charges but “they were kind and chose not to.” He was sent home from his Mission and ex’d. I don’t recall if he said he was registered but he never faced legal consequences.
In addition to this, while living in a Ward just outside of Liberty Missouri I had a friend in my Ward who came to me in tears. She had just found out that her Husband was meeting with Prostitutes. It’s also why he missed the birth of one of his daughter’s. She went to her Bishop to tell him all that her Husband had confessed to her. Her Bishop in turn told her that his hands were tied because her Husband wouldn’t admit to anything in their meetings together.
My mother was severely abusive to me as a child prior to becoming LDS. I mean severely abusive in every sense of the phrase and she has served in Primary for 8 years.
When I first joined the Church I was a teenager and I struggled applying the Law of Chastity to the 2 year relationship I had been in prior to my joining. The Bishops daughters at the time learned of this and shared it with everyone. Fast forward 5 years, I went home to visit my family in my home Ward and we had a new Bishop. Upon learning that I had come back he sent out a letter to all of the Bishops in our Stake warning them about me (how I was an “attractive seductive seducer”) and informed them of the process I had gone through 5 years prior as a teenager. I went to my Stake President with this information, I was absolutely heartbroken and mortified. My Stake President asked my Bishop outwardly in a private meeting if he had done this. The Bishop was dishonest and said no. I told my Stake President that he was lying and he said that I should not speak ill of my Leaders. Shortly after I left that Stake the Bishop was Called to serve in the High Counsel and the Stake President is now serving in the Q of the Seventy. My thoughts were, how can this be if inspiration is supposed to be a part of the process? How am I to trust that everything they say is truly from Heavenly Father when they are Calling these types of people to lead the Church? In Florida, Callings are not given through revelation they are given based on who you’re friends with or if you have family serving in certain positions.
When I lived in Corpus Christi TX I knew the Stake Relief Society President and her family well. She had an affair with a Member from the High Council, she even confessed this to her family. She nor him were ever released from their Callings.
This is just a small list of the things I’ve seen but it has caused me to wrestle with my Testimony over the years. What’s the alternative to leaving the Church? A sense of not belonging anywhere? Depression? Unsure of what religious beliefs to bring my children up with? Tension between spouses? Honestly, what’s the alternative. The Church has brought more good into my life than it has bad but I’m aware. More aware than most Members.
I’ll just add that I’ve felt for a long time that Victims (whether that be physical abuse, sexual abuse or Spouses of Pornography addicts) are often overlooked, their pain overlooked and their counseled instead to have charity and faith. I mean goodness, how long did it take the Church to FINALLY come out with a support program that was strictly for the wives of addicts. Prior to last year, the Wife’s group was about how to support her Spouse through his addiction. There was nothing for her on how to deal with her feelings and hurt.
Interesting dilemma we all have since we’ve identified the fact that the Church is now in a state of apostasy. What does that mean and what can we do about it? Excellent questions! First thing that needs to be recognized is the leaders are not inspired. You’ve already figured that out AR. The next question is do they have any ordinances of the gospel that will lead to eternal life. The answer is no they do not. They have lost the priesthood and the keys. How complete is the apostasy and is there anything left? The answer is yes there is one aspect left in the Church and that is the Aaronic Priesthood. The Lord left us that so that we can baptize our little children. Other than that there isn’t anything left.
So the question is why would you want to take your children to Church where false doctrines are taught to them and the ordinances have all been changed? There is no salvation at this time in the Church. The only thing we can do is first recognize the apostasy and don’t sustain it. Sustain means don’t sustain wicked and evil leaders. You might ask what are they guilty of? Here is a short list. They accept abortion which is murder. There are 3,000+ abortions a year in Salt Lake City. Of course we don’t know how many of from LDS members but you can sure bet it’s a bunch. Not a word of condemnation over the pulpit. You can have an abortion in this Church and still be able to get a temple recommend for almost any reason now. That is as long as you ask before you have one and pump up a few prayers.
Another false doctrine that is now taught to the members and children is that Christ set an example for us by doing good works. He is now nothing more than a mother Teresa. How absurd. Christ didn’t come here to do good deeds – He came to perform the atonement. His great miracles were to show that He was God the Son. He did not do what he did for humanitarian purposes. So the doctrines are changing in the Church from what was taught at the restoration.
A few more things they are guilty of is idolatry, serving mammon and not God, allowing blacks into the priesthood contrary to revelation in the Pearl of Great Price, changed temple ordinances. The list is lengthy. Those are just a few examples – there are many others that I could give you. So what is to be done? Don’t sustain, don’t support, but study the scriptures and believe what is taught in them. The only thing we can do now is wait until the Lord corrects the problem.
Isaiah told us what we are to do. Get our food storage and wait. I no longer attend Church because it is a waste of time. I don’t want to listen to their false doctrine and false testimonies any longer. I study the scriptures myself and teach the best I can my family the doctrines of salvation. It is a tough thing as you’ve pointed out of course but since when is anything easy during the time of apostasy. Anciently is was just as hard to not go along and today is no different. That is some of the things I do and don’t do. We are living at time that is similar to the apostasies in the BOM, Bible, and at about 325 ad after the true apostles were all dead. Rocky
This video on youtube is a very well crafted piece from a man that was ex-communicated, he built it up very well, however if you really listen you’ll discover that after elder mickelsen discovered that the girl was indicating that she was savvy about some sexual things sitting on grandpas lap, he is the one that said to her parents, I can’t take her anymore, something is going on, from then on, not only do you notice that ron spends no time bringing in speculation on who could have been the one to do this, he paints an untrue picture of the lds church along with a blood oath taken, that doesn’t even happen anymore and paints this horrible picture. It’s obvious he’s angry, question, why did he get ex-d, if he was on good terms with grandpa, don’t you think he’d talk about investigating to see if another man or older teenager had taught her things, this isn’t talked about or speculated, the blame immediately goes to the grandfather, as far as we know, ron could have been the culprit and painting this whole picture. I made one comment on that video and he called me a name, he’s quite an angry person. I am 65 and I saw past the story, and I challenge anyone to point out anything that made sense. When offered money, all we see is one side, was it for counseling for the family, it certainly wasn’t to cover anything up, because that would show guilt. I can’t believe people accepting this, unless they are angry ex mormons themselves, or people that are naive about how these things work. Things happen, pedophilia is out there, but no man of god is going to turn back a child to the parents and tell them, something is going on, she knows about sexual things and is only 6 yrs old, that wouldn’t have played out like that