The scriptures warn us that in the last days there will be prophets who do not prophesy and seers who do not see (Isaiah 30:10). Jesus also warned that there would be false prophets and an abundance of men teaching their own precepts to get gain, so that even the very elect will be deceived (2 Nephi 26:29; JS Matthew 1:22).
As Latter-day Saints we must learn what a true prophet is and we must learn to discern between true and false prophets lest we also be deceived.
The scriptures provide a standard by which we can all judge. Simply put, a prophet must have the spirit of prophecy in order to be a true prophet. This is the sign.
As we watch General Conference we should look for the spirit of prophecy. We should measure carefully what is being said. We should pray that those who we sustain as prophets will prophesy and speak prophetically because when prophets and seers, prophesy and see, they become a great benefit to their fellow man (Mosiah 8:18). This is the means whereby we can receive salvation.
If men who are called prophets do not have the spirit of prophecy we can know they are false prophets. Nephi gives us an important bar by which we can measure:
Wherefore, hearken, O my people, which are of the house of Israel, and give ear unto my words; for because the words of Isaiah are not plain unto you, nevertheless they are plain unto all those that are filled with the spirit of prophecy (2 Nephi 25:4).
All prophets will understand the words of Isaiah. They will also share the testimony of the Savior and of Nephi and others that the words of Isaiah are great! (3 Nephi 23:1).
When’s the last time you heard an LDS prophet give a talk on the words of Isaiah in General Conference? When Jesus came to the Nephites, He gave them the “commandment to search these things diligently; for great are the words of Isaiah.” Do the servants of the Lord today emphasize this same commandment?
In a cursory search on DeseretBook.com, I found 21 books on the topic of Isaiah:
Isaiah For Airheads By John Bytheway
Understanding Isaiah By Jay A. Parry, Donald W. Parry
Isaiah Decoded By Avraham Gileadi
Isaiah: Prophet, Seer and Poet By Victor L. Ludlow
Making Isaiah Plain By Randal S. Chase
Apocalyptic Commentary of the Book of Isaiah By Avraham Gileadi
Unlocking Isaiah in the Book of Mormon By Victor L. Ludlow
Making Sense of Isaiah: Insights and Modern Applications By Nathan Winn, Terry B. Ball
Isaiah, Plain and Simple: The Message of Isaiah in the Book of Mormon By Hoyt W. Brewster, Jr.
Opening Isaiah By Ann Madsen
Unlocking Isaiah By Reg Christensen
Isaiah for Today By *Mark E. Petersen
Understanding the Words of Isaiah By Terry B. Ball
The Literary Message of Isaiah By Avraham Gileadi
Great Are the Words of Isaiah By Monte S. Nyman
Isaiah in the Book of Mormon By The Neal A. Maxwell Institute at BYU, John W. Welch, Amalphi Arts
Isaiah and the Prophets: Inspired Voices from the Old Testament By Monte S. Nyman
Isaiah: The Times of Fulfillment: A Verse-by-Verse Commentary By Ivan D. Sanderson
End from the Beginning: The Apocalyptic Vision of Isaiah By Avraham Gileadi
Commentaries on Isaiah in the Book of Mormon By K. Douglas Bassett
Making Precious Things Plain, Vol. 8: Old Testament Study Guide: Deuteronomy to Isaiah By Randal S. Chase
Of the 21 books for sale, only ONE past prophet, Mark Petersen, has written a book on Isaiah. Today’s prophets write books such as: Counseling With Our Councils, The Christmas Train, A Future As Bright As Your Faith, To The Rescue, Forget Me Not, and 21 Principles.
All the above may be excellent topics, but why do today’s LDS prophets not speak or write of Isaiah? Why do they not rejoice in his words? Why do they not explain what his words mean? If these words are so great and so relevant to us in our day, why are the so called prophets not using their “spirit of prophecy” in a way that would render Isaiah’s vital words easier to understand?
Is it possible that these prophets do not understand the words of Isaiah? If so, can they be true prophets? Jesus said “ALL who have the spirit of prophecy” will easily understand Isaiah’s words. They will comprehend them in plainness. If these prophets rely upon trained scholars to understand Isaiah, would this be evidence that such men are not true prophets? I leave that for you to judge.
The best book I’ve ever read on Isaiah is written by a man named Denver Snuffer who the Church has foolishly excommunicated.
I invite you to read this book and decide if Brother Snuffer has the spirit of prophecy or not. If his witness is true, we would all do well to take his words very seriously.
This an interesting proposition.
I wouldn’t use it as the only measuring rod to determine if someone is a prophet or not. Especially since Joseph Smith said that the spirit of prophecy was anyone that has the testimony of Jesus. (See TPJS p. 119 and Rev. 19:10)
Don’t be surprised if next conference you see many more talks peppered with Isaiah verses. LOL
I recommend you look into what it means to have “the testimony of Jesus,” based on what Joseph Smith taught about the subject. It isn’t the same thing as the testimony people typically talk about in fast and testimony meeting.
aredesuyo, explain.
Just because the brethren do not expound on Isaiah or appear to exhibit the gifts of prophecy, revelation, or seer-ship doesn’t prove that they are false prophets, let alone the false prophets in the last days warned about in the scriptures who appear in sheep’s clothing but are really raviness wolves. It’s altogether possible that the Lord has a role for them that we simply do not fully understand. Perhaps their mission is to spread the Book of Mormon throughout the earth and testify of Christ, which they do pretty well. The church is in a state of apostasy there’s no denying that, but that doesn’t necessarily make the brethren false prophets.
Even if the brethren are false prophets, or at least don’t have the gift of prophecy, that doesn’t all of a sudden give Denver Snuffer the gift of prophecy. Writing a book expounding on the mysteries contained in Isaiah, regardless of how enlightening it may be, doesn’t prove anything one way or the other. The scriptures warn that in the last days there will be false prophets who will show forth great signs and wonders and deceive even the very elect. Surely expounding on the words of Isaiah could just as easily be a sign or wonder produced by a false prophet.
Denver Snuffer is a very compelling and polarizing man. He presents himself as one called of God, with a message directly from Christ. His target audience are those who have awakened to the knowledge of the church’s state of apostasy. The question is does he exhibit the traits of the true prophet or messenger that he claims to be, or is he a wolf in sheep’s clothing deceiving the very elect who have begun to awaken?
The reality is that he doesn’t exhibit the traits of a true prophet. He teaches too much false doctrine, along with the truths he presents. This is not the fruit of a true prophet, but rather a false one. Joseph Smith taught something to the effect that “Satan will teach nine truths together with one lie.” Denver has also changed his story on a number of key doctrines since his first apparent visit from Christ. For example for a number of years he said that the church still provides an valid baptism, but then all of a sudden it doesn’t. Some of the things he teaches especially his interpretation of the second comforter doctrine are not in accordance with scripture. How many of those who accept him as a true messenger and have followed the steps he provides to gain a personal audience with Christ have actually experienced that? I haven’t heard of anyone yet. If one reads what he teaches with the Holy Ghost as their guide one can see through his deception. He teaches a lot of truth, but too much false doctrine to be what he professes to be.
Joseph Smith, Nephi, Lehi, and the brother of Jared had the spirit of prophecy. What commonality do they share? They literally stood in the presence of the Lord and obtained first-hand knowledge that he exists. When the Lord appears to someone we can have confidence that he bestows upon them the same opportunity that he gave to the ancient apostles in the locked room, or to the 2500 Nephites in the land bountiful. They were invited to come forth, to feel of the wounds in his hands, feet, and side. They obtained a real testimony for themselves, not one repeated from someone else.
This is what it means to have the testimony of Jesus.
Good points. Thanks for sharing.
Isaiah leads to conclusions where church leaders don’t want to go.
The fact that most members don’t study, or even read the book mormon.Is not also
a contributing factor. Example, Chapter one:
22 Thy silver is become dross, thy wine mixed with water:
23 Thy princes are rebellious, and companions of thieves: every one loveth gifts, and followeth after rewards: they judge not the fatherless, neither doth the cause of the widow come unto them.
Is Isaiah not talking about monetary inflation,and Gov-Co corruption?
Members would have to actually read books Do some homework. Try and understand
the implication of the passage in todays context.
………………………….Not going to happen.
Look at the “Study the President : Ezra Taft Benson” book that was released last year
from the church.Talk about a sanitized,white washed document.
The Church wants all the members big, dumb, fat, and happy.
“Nothing to see here, just keep moving along. We will do all the thinking for you”
Thanks for article,
He’s boldly claimed to have stood in the presence of Christ. That’s more than “the Brethren” have claimed.
Yes he has claimed to have had a personal audience with Christ and that Christ dictated a message to him that he was to deliver to the saints. That claim raises the stakes. If he’s telling the truth and his message is of God then following that message is paramount. However if he has either been deceived by Satan or an evil spirit posing as an angel of light, or is just lying then he must be rejected. There can be no middle ground.
His claim to a personal visit from Christ is a very serious thing. It doesn’t prove he is a true messenger. It proves he is either a true messenger or a false prophet. One must closely examine his fruits and have the Holy Ghost as their guide to know what he is. The scriptures say “by their fruits ye shall no them.”
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M C with sincerity, I would appreciate it if you would point out the false doctrine that Denver Snuffer has put forth. Additionally could you provide a citation for the Joseph Smith quote “Satan will teach nine truths together with one lie” . I have been looking for that one for a while. Additionally, could you please provide us with the list of the “number of key doctrines” that DS has changed since his first visit from Christ. And finally would you mind showing us how his interpretation of the second comforter doctrine is not in accordance with scripture. Thanks
M C would you mind showing us the fruits of the Brethren of today that evidence that they are the true prophets? I believe as you say ” by their fruits ye shall know them”.
I would say not just General Conference, but anywhere. It seems policy changes, etc lately are not being done behind the pulpit.
Can you please share more details, or tell me where I can find them? I have read through Denver’s books and much of his blog, and I am not sure what you are referring to that is false doctrine. Ever since I found out about him, I have been trying to verify the truth of what he is saying. The only answers I have gained are that he has spoken the truth. Please tell me what the false doctrine is that he is teaching. (BTW, the validity of LDS baptism is a copout. Clearly, the Lord can give authority and can take it away. Just because Denver said that the LDS church had authority, and then later said that it didn’t, does not mean he was lying or changing his story. It means that he is claiming that the Lord removed that authority, and He can do whatever He wants.)
I do not believe there are any concrete fruits that the brethren put forth that support them as true prophets, seers, and revelators. My point wasn’t to claim that they possess those gifts. Or even to defend them.
My point is that just because they very likely do not possess those gifts, that doesn’t automatically make them the false prophets in the last days warned about in the scriptures. Even if they are among the false prophets warned about, that by no means makes Denver Snuffer a true one.
Denver Snuffer must be judged according to his own fruits and not based on the fact that he presents new truth that the brethren do not, points out the brethrens flaws, or even because he boldly proclaims to have seen Christ. One must look at his fruits, he’s not the first person to have claimed to have seen Christ and have a message for the saints.
Dear Bishop Anon ~
You wrote that “As Latter-day Saints we must learn what a true prophet is and we must learn to discern between true and false prophets lest we also be deceived. The scriptures provide a standard by which we can all judge.”
You are correct. Thankfully, God in His omniscience saw that there would arise many deceivers and He made the way clear for us to discern between true and false prophets.
We must apply the specific Biblical tests to be certain that we are not deceived by a false prophet. For our protection, God generously gave us these tests throughout His word.
Tenth LDS President Joseph Fielding Smith said, “Mormonism, as it is called, must stand or fall on the story of Joseph Smith. He was either a prophet of God, divinely called, properly appointed and commissioned, or he was one of the biggest frauds this world has ever seen. There is no middle ground.”
The Old Testament book of Deuteronomy chapters 13 and 18, provides two tests for anyone claiming to be a prophet and speaking for God. If the person fails either test given by God, then we can know for sure they are a false prophet and we are to reject their teaching.
Deuteronomy 13:1– 10 (KJV) – If there arise among you a prophet, or a dreamer of dreams, and giveth thee a sign or a wonder, 2 And the sign or the wonder come to pass, whereof he spake unto thee, saying, Let us go after other gods, which thou hast not known, and let us serve them;
3 Thou shalt not hearken unto the words of that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams: for the Lord your God proveth you, to know whether ye love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul. 4 Ye shall walk after the Lord your God, and fear him, and keep his commandments, and obey his voice, and ye shall serve him, and cleave unto him. 5 And that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams, shall be put to death; because he hath spoken to turn you away from the Lord your God, which brought you out of the land of Egypt, and redeemed you out of the house of bondage, to thrust thee out of the way which the Lord thy God commanded thee to walk in. So shalt thou put the evil away from the midst of thee. 6 If thy brother, the son of thy mother, or thy son, or thy daughter, or the wife of thy bosom, or thy friend, which is as thine own soul, entice thee secretly, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which thou hast not known, thou, nor thy fathers; 7 Namely, of the gods of the people which are round about you, nigh unto thee, or far off from thee, from the one end of the earth even unto the other end of the earth; 8 Thou shalt not consent unto him, nor hearken unto him; neither shall thine eye pity him, neither shalt thou spare, neither shalt thou conceal him: 9 But thou shalt surely kill him; thine hand shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people. 10 And thou shalt stone him with stones, that he die; because he hath sought to thrust thee away from the Lord thy God, which brought thee out of the land of Egypt, from the house of bondage.
Deuteronomy 18:20–22 (KJV) – But the prophet, which shall presume to speak a word in my name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or that shall speak in the name of other gods, even that prophet shall die.
21 And if thou say in thine heart, How shall we know the word which the Lord hath not spoken?22 When a prophet speaketh in the name of the Lord, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the Lord hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him.
Matthew 24:24 (KJV – For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
II Corinthians 11:3–4 (KJV) – But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtlety, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have no preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him. (emphasis added)
Galatians 1:6–9 (KJV) – I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.
I Timothy 4:1–2 (KJV) – “…. in the later times some shall depart the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron…”
II Peter 2:1 (KJV) – But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
I John 4:1 (KJV) – Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.
The God of Israel tells His people how they can prevent themselves from being deceived by someone claiming to be a prophet – if even one of the prophet’s prophecies do not come true, he is a false prophet. What was the punishment if a prophet did speak a false prophecy? According to verse 20, the prophet was to die. God takes the area of false prophecy very seriously.
John 14:6 (KJV) Jesus saith unto them, “I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me”
As Christ in 3rd Nephi validated Samuels words, I propose we study Helaman 13:24–28, the lamanite taught that a true prophet will always warn of your iniquities. False prophets say all is well. Do this, do that there is no iniquities. Search 2nd Nephi 28, Mormon 8,9, and Isaiah. Jeremiah 23: In the latter days ye shall consider it perfectly. 21 I have not sent these prophets, yet they ran; I have not spoken to them, yet they prophesied. 22 But if they had stood in my council, and had caused my people to hear my words, then they should have turned them from their evil way, and from the evil of their doings. I find it perplexing, many places in the scriptures it says wo be unto them that say all is well in Zion, yet Uchtdorf, Holland, Ballard and other GAs name talks and speak it incessantly. True prophets? I feel iniquity in it’s forms mentioned in the Book of Mormon over 200 times, might be important enough to search what it is in our day. One will find it is not what is at the surface. I have a friend that recently wrote an essay on iniquity of today accepted by us and in the corporate church. If I had 13 pages, or smart enough to link, I would humbly share. The foundation of his work is through years of diligently searching the words of Isaiah, as Christ commanded. 2 Nephi 25:12 Christ was rejected because of iniquity! 2 Nephi 2:1 In the last days, or in the days of the Gentiles Yea behold, they will be drunken with iniquity.If we do not search the scriptures and take the holy spirit for our guide we will fall into the camp of the deceived D&C 45:57.
Helorum and Blair, I do not believe that the comment section of Bishop Anon’s blog is the most appropriate place to dig deeply into Denver Snuffer’s misconceptions, false teachings, and lack of fruits to support being a true messenger. This is not my blog and I do not wish to take it over. Denver teaches so much truth along with his often subtle false teachings that it is impossible to provide a list or break it down in this comment section. If you provide me with your email addresses I can break down many of the things I’ve found that don’t add up in his teachings and actions.
Here’s a quick back story about me so you know where I’m coming from. I recently awoke to the knowledge of the church’s apostasy a few months ago. I good friend of mine, who was instrumental in my awakening, accepts Denver as a true messenger. He pointed me towards Denver. This is the first I had ever heard of Denver Snuffer. I looked into Denver and began furiously studying his teachings from his blog, read his two of his lectures in the 40 years in Mormonism series, and PTHG. I sincerely hoped that Denver was a true messenger of the Lord and sought to gain the witness that he was in fact just that. It certainly would have been easier for me to go from gaining a knowledge of the church’s apostasy and the fact that the brethren are not really prophets, seers, and revelators to finding the Lord’s true messenger just like that. I put my trust in the Lord and determined to gain the witness that Denver was the answer.
I first began reading his blog from beginning to end. Initially I was very impressed and thought that Denver might actually be the Lord’s messenger. There were many new truths and insights that Denver was teaching that I had never heard before. Then for whatever reason I decided to skip ahead in his blog to see what he had been posting around the time of his excommunication. The spirit of what he was saying and his tone were night and day different. That put up a red flag for me. In spite of my feeling that something was off, I determined to keep investigating in the hopes that I was wrong. I read his first two lectures and honestly wasn’t impressed. Nothing in either one appeared even slightly to be dictated by the Lord, rather it felt more like a John Bytheway talk. I was a little disturbed by Denver’s occasional swearing and also the fact that he didn’t open his lectures with a prayer (apparently he does on Sundays). Why wouldn’t he invite the spirit by offering a prayer? Didn’t make sense. Another red flag. So now I moved on to PTHG. I very carefully read that book and took detailed notes, verified every claim Denver made with the scripture references he provided to support his views. Many of them added up and many of them didn’t. I did learn a lot of new truths from the things I read from Denver, but what about the things that I knew were false? Would a true messenger of the Lord speak so many falsehoods, even if many of them were subtle? I couldn’t justify that, but I also didn’t want to reject him out of fear that he was a true messenger in spite of the contradictions, and that I would be damning myself if I rejected him. Since then I have tried to to find the truth for myself in the scriptures, teachings of Joseph Smith, and every online resource I can find. I spend hours upon hours every day searching for the truth. The more knowledge I gained the more I realized that Denver has to be a false prophet.
I few things to look at where Denver goes back and forth about things or is just wrong:
Compare Denver’s blog on D&C 132, His section on Polygamy in PTHG, and his Polygamy lecture to see for yourselves that Denver is going back and forth about the polygamy issue and is reluctant to take position on it one way or the other.
Read what he say’s about the validity of LDS baptisms prior to his excommunication and then compare that to what he is saying now. In a recent blog post of his he states that the LDS baptism is invalid because it requires one to sustain President Monson as a prophet as part of the baptismal questions. However this requirement was already in the questions being asked when Denver was teaching that the church still provides a valid baptism.
Read Enos in the B of M. I can’t find any evidence that Enos was seeing the Lord face to face as Denver claims, let alone having his calling and election made sure.
Denver’s definitions of unbelief, belief, faith, and knowledge that he describes in PTHG are wrong. Especially the one about knowledge being a personal visit from Christ or an angel. Also in German belief and faith are the exact same word.
As far as Denver’s second comforter teachings I’ll answer your question with a question. If a Harley driving, divorced, lawyer can gain a personal audience with Christ (divorce and being a lawyer are condemned by the Savior in the scripture) then it must not be that difficult. How many of Denver’s followers have experienced what he says he has? Or anyone else for that matter? The proof is in the pudding. Also does Denver exhibit the fruits of a holy man who has had his calling and election made sure, which is the most important part of receiving the second comforter? You’ll have to answer that for yourselves.
I see little if any scriptural support for the secret forming of fellowships while still retaining ones membership and activity in the church.
I see no scriptural support for giving a man the priesthood based on 9 women signing off on it, let alone not ordaining that man to a specific priesthood office as prescribed in the D&C. There is the off hand scripture in Isaiah about 9 women taking hold of one man, that Denver use to associate with polygamy (it’s the heading to his chapter about polygamy in PTHG).
At the end of the day each man must decide for himself if Denver or any other self proclaimed prophet exhibits the fruits of a true prophet or a false one. No one can determine that for you, only the Holy Ghost.
Audrey,
Thank you for your comments about “what a true prophet is”. I found your scriptures quite enlightening, especially in context of the following LDS prophets statements.
In 1869 Elder Wilford Woodruff taught:
“If we were to do away with polygamy, it would only be one feather in the bird, one ordinance in the Church and kingdom. Do away with that, then we must do away with prophets and Apostles, with revelation and the gifts and graces of the Gospel, and finally give up our religion altogether and turn sectarians and do as the world does, then all would be right. We just can’t do that, for God has commanded us to build up His kingdom and to bear our testimony to the nations of the earth, and we are going to do it, come life or come death. He has told us to do thus, and we shall obey Him in days to come as we have in days past” (JOD13:165 – p.166).
On September 24th, 1890, President Wilford Woodruff revealed his Official Declaration or Manifesto to the Church and the United States. The signing of the Manifesto was certainly a major blow to the “prophetic insights on polygamy” given by Brigham Young, John Taylor, and Wilford Woodruff. Perhaps President Woodruff did not act in accordance to the mind and will of God; to do so would be admitting that God has a very short memory, or that the previous statements from LDS Prophets, Seers and Revelators were outside of his will.
And of course this revelation was so profound that Elder Bruce R McConkie stated in his Mormon Doctrine, which was approved by the President Joseph Fielding Smith:
“Obviously the holy practice will commence again after the Second Coming of the Son of Man and the ushering in of the millenium.” (Mormon Doctrine, p. 578).
As controversial as Polygamy was, it’s not the only topic where prophetic statements have been challenged. Brigham Young stated in Feb. 5, 1852,
“Let this Church which is called the kingdom of God on the earth; we will sommons the first presidency, the twelve, the high counsel, the Bishoprick, and all the elders of Isreal, suppose we summons them to apear here, and here declare that it is right to mingle our seed, with the black race of Cain, that they shall come in with us and be pertakers with us of all the blessings God has given to us. On that very day, and hour we should do so, the preisthood is taken from this Church and kingdom and God leaves us to our fate. The moment we consent to mingle with the seed of Cain the Church must go to desstruction, “
LDS Church Historical Department, Ms d 1234, Box 48, folder 3
Regarding this statement, along with other statements which have been given by other Prophets, Seers and Revelators, the LDS church released the following about the Church and Race: “Today, the Church disavows the theories advanced in the past that black skin is a sign of divine disfavor or curse, or that it reflects unrighteous actions in a premortal life; that mixed-race marriages are a sin; or that blacks or people of any other race or ethnicity are inferior in any way to anyone else. Church leaders today unequivocally condemn all racism, past and present, in any form.” https://www.lds.org/topics/race-and-the-priesthood?lang=eng&query=Race+and+the+Priesthood
As if this position wasn’t clear enough, the Church again re-clarified it’s self with the following statement after BYU Professor Randy Bott gave a historical view concerning the blacks and the Church:
“The positions attributed to BYU Professor Randy Bott…absolutely do not represent the teachings and doctrines of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints”
“It is not known precisely why, how, or when this restriction began in the Church but what is clear is that it ended decades ago. Some have attempted to explain the reason for this restriction but these attempts should be viewed as speculation and opinion, not doctrine.” http://www.mormonnewsroom.org/article/racial-remarks-in-washington-post-article
Well, I beg to differ; the Church knows exactly when the restrictions began about blacks and the priesthood, and that it was openly taught from the pulpit. With this in mind, if the church is disavowing President Brigham Young and his doctrines on blacks as speculation and opinion, then how are we to know if his other statements can be accepted as doctrine.
If church leaders in the past spoke “revelation” in the absence of God’s mind or will, how then do we know when they have received revelation? How often does this happen, and will need to be corrected, as in this case?
How do we know that the same thing isn’t happening in our own day from our own pulpits? How do we tell the difference between truth and teaching for doctrine the commandments of men? I find this a very interesting issue; this is where studying it out in our minds comes to play and then invoke the spirit for answers; ask and ye shall receive.
Anonymous Bishop always posts interesting things that helps challenge our unbelief’s and causes one to question if we are truly converted to Christ, or to the culture of the LDS Church.
All the best, AB2
Of all the books on Isaiah out there the only one that I found that is worth anything is Scriptures of the Last Days by Robert Smith. This verse by verse commentary is the best commentary that has ever been written on Isaiah. Unfortunantly it is out of print now. Luckly for me I have a copy. The other books you mentioned in your list above are all filled with contridictions and guess work. None of them I found were of any benefit in understanding Isaiah. I like to buy them whenever I can to see what is out there because the Lord told us numerious times to search Isaiah.
Isaiah was written in Jerusalem (Southern Kingdom) near the time when the Northern Kingdom was taken into captivity. It is doubtful that any of the 10 tribes read the prophecies of Isaiah at all. He didn’t write it for them nor did he call them to repentance. The revelations that he recieved were to and for the Church in the Last Days. It is a warning to us that the Church has lapsed into apostasy and the leaders are corrupt and leading the people astray by telling them that “All is well in Zion, Yea Zion prospers.” Isaiah the prophet when understood explains clearly that in the Last Days out prophets see nothing and hear nothing. In other words Isaiah the Prophet tells us that our prophets aren’t true prophets.
Rocky
Thats right ,spot on.And what is iniquity???
= INEQUALITY
Who is the bigest purveyor of iniquity on wholesale basis??
“Full Definition of INEQUALITY”
1
: the quality of being unequal or uneven: as
a : lack of evenness
b : social disparity
c : disparity of distribution or opportunity
d : the condition of being variable
Who enforces Priestcraft??Or better known as enforced priestcraft/ORDER of NEHOR
Gov-Co
Are fight is not with the Marlboro man,Jack Daniels,Joe Camel and Queers.
It is the modern day Gadianton Robbers That have usurped the authority.
And member’s that come down to partake of the spoils. with there partner
GOV-CO
Well, things have become more interesting, that’s for sure.
It appears that those who defend Denver Snuffer as ‘true messenger’ now sound nearly like the members of the LDS Church who insist on defending the brethren as ‘true messengers’.
This is beginning to look more like a pi**ing match than anything else. And, I’m not overwhelmingly surprised, really. It’s sad, in fact.
I feel the LDS Church has a great number of problems, and is possibly in apostasy, but I don’t think Denver Snuffer is the answer. And, because of the confusion that reigns, I have seriously questioned the existence of God, Jesus, and anything related to religion. I’m supposed to believe that Jesus/God or whomever has made this process of salvation so convoluted and difficult as to make it impossible? Why bother? Seems to me that so-called ‘salvation’ is simply a weeding-out process for getting rid of a large and burdensome population of spirit children who were getting in the way.
Sounds nuts? No more nuttier than arguing back and forth about who has the “true messenger”. Have fun with that, folks.
Lawrence,
The promise of Eternal Life or life as God has it is what is at stake. Many are called but few are chosen. Jesus Christ gave everything in order to inherit his throne. Those who will inherit Eternal life will become joint heirs with him. You expect that you can obtain that reward without much effort? That it will be easy? Not going to happen that way. If DS is a true messenger, how will you know if you don’t read his works and then ask God. If you do read his works and then determine that he is not a true messenger, what have you lost? Keep going until you do find true messengers pointing the way back to Christ. True messengers only point the way Christ who is mighty to save. Have fun with that Lawrence.
Hi MC, you said you’ve been furiously studying Denver and his claims for a few months. I believe you and I’m sure this has been sincere study. trying to make sense of what is really truth when you realize the church you have believed in may not be what it claims is a very difficult thing, often times, it feels like you can’t trust anyone. As someone who has walked a similar path and also questioned Denver in the past, my only advise would be to pray for a teachable heart and pray to understand truth….and then be patient but continue trying to work this all out. The answers come. For me, it was many months, a lot of objective and open minded studying, praying and pondering continuously, and fasting to get to where the lord, at a completely unexpected place and time, testified to me of the truthfulness of Denver’s claim to be a true messanger sent by Him. The confirmation caught me completely off guard, but I knew it was from God. It’s now been more than 3 years of study and progress. I’ve learned so much and have had spiritual gifts manifested in my own life. I normally don’t comment on blogs..but I can just sense your frustration at finding out the current church is in a state of apostasy and not wanting to be duped or deceived. I can relate, I felt the same way. Press forward in your investigation of Denver and all of his writings. Be open minded and willing to be taught by the spirit. Be patient. If you press forward with a humble and sincere heart, believing God will answer your prayers, the answers will come, and they may surprise you. The lord can’t teach anyone who’s convinced they’ve already figured it all out on their own. He needs us to be meek and humble and ultimately, like little children. Inquisitive and believing that our father in heaven is the one with the correct answers, don’t trust anyone but him. God bless you on your journey.
T
MC, can you share your findings with me, please? vst.tunes@gmail.com
Thanks!
Lawrence, I think it’s clear now who the true messengers really are. They are the ones whom received real revelation. AB has documented very well that the current bunch don’t receive revelation. Same with Denver S even though he might claim it. The only place to look now is to the true prophets of God. They are only found in the standard works. The rest are either phonies or apostates.
I’m now sola scripture. I only believe what is found there because the rest is simply leaning on the arm of flesh. Rock.
Helorum,
The problem with your comments in support of DS is that we are told that in the Last Days there would be many false prophets running around. I hear people like DS all the time making this claim or that. When you compare what they have to say against scripture it all falls apart. No I haven’t read much if anything from DS. But if he is a true prophet of God then there should be signs of that calling just as there were signs of the Prophet Joseph Smith. I don’t see any with him and so I don’t consider him a prophet. I don’t see any with Monson either for that matter. For me the Standard Works are the standard by which you judge. Not any one person that makes a claim they’ve received this or that from God.
The scriptures tell us what we are supposed to be doing in the last days and its quite simple. We are not to follow leaders that do not keep the commandments. Well then, study what your leaders believe and if they don’t match scripture then DON”T SUSTAIN them because you will be held responsible for that sustaining.
I won’t sustain Monson and the 12 over abortion alone. The policy of the Church is you can have an abortion for any reason (oh as long as you ask them for permission). They will throw you out however if you don’t ask them for permission. You can have an abortion for Rape, Incest and life and health of the mother – which is everything of course. This is murder and I can’t support them because of it.
Just claiming revelation from God doesn’t cut it. Need to be something more. Rocky
Rocky wrote “… I hear people like DS all the time making this claim or that. When you compare what they have to say against scripture it all falls apart. No I haven’t read much if anything from DS…”
Rocky, how do you know what DS has written falls apart when compared against scripture when you admit you haven’t made the effort to read what he has written?
Well, I guess it’s based on what a neighbor who is gaga over the guy told me. That’s about it. What he told me a while back the fact that he brags that Christ appeared to him just doesn’t smack of a true prophet of God. It is true that Joseph Smith saw God and testified of it. But something doesn’t fit about this. There were other things as well but haven’t looked into it. So what did he tell you in his writings that makes you think he knows something?
Here’s the problem. Isaiah was written for us in the Last Days and Isaiah tells us that our prophets are phonies. They don’t see nor hear the word of the Lord. The Lord told us in Isaiah what we are to do to be prepared. It isn’t going after these people who don’t know anything but claim they do. The answer is found in Isaiah what we supposed to do because Isaiah really was a prophet unlike Monson and DS. In fact, you were told 10 times in the BOM to study Isaiah. There’s the answer. The Lord didn’t leave you without answers – go study Isaiah and there you will find the answer. It’s all there for us in the last days. You don’t have to run after these phonies that make things up. They don’t have any answers.
Robert Smith’s “Scriptures of the Last Days” is the best commentary on Isaiah that I have ever read. It is excellent and opens up the book like no other. After reading it I can honestly say that I understand every single verse in Isaiah. Isaiah has lots to say about us, what is coming, and how to prepare. He is the watchman on the tower in the last days who tells us what to do. Not DS nor Monson. The Lord prepared Isaiah because He knew that the Church would lapse into apostasy. The BOM even tells you that every 200 years or so is about the longest a restoration can last given the strength of Lucifer in this world. He installs the leaders and changes all the ordinances and doctrines which has happened. Rocky
How do you know the scriptures are translated correctly? You don’t.
That being said, If you read or listen to DS, you will hear mostly scriptures. The man was a gospel doctrine teacher for 20 years…he knows his scriptures. The first time I ever heard of him, I was riding in a car and there was a CD on about the temple (one of his earlier lectures) After listening for awhile, I burst into tears, I was so moved by what he said. I asked: “Who in the world is that?!?! when I could stop sobbing long enough to speak.
I started buying his books (this was years before he was exed) I learned so much about the scriptures…much more than from watching conference or Gospel doctrine classes, or institute classes, or on my own.
As for Isaiah, Gileadi opened that for me, unlike the Deseret books on Isaiah.
For me I didn’t start to understand Isaiah and latter day revelation until I understood the 3-watches.
https://thechiefinspector.files.wordpress.com/2012/08/blog-listing.pdf
Leveda, for the most part the metaphorical visions in the Old testament are translated correctly. The reason they are is because they are not understood and the scribes left them alone. If you look at Isaiah transcripts they agree accept in a few places. Some things were added and subtracted like Isaiah 9:6 the part about the mighty God, Everlasting Father was added because they thought it was talking about Christ. So there are a few things wrong with it of course. You have to have a good translation of the scriptures in order to understand them. The Lord provided that in Robert Smith and A. Gileadi translations of Isaiah. the KJV is not a very good translation because they didn’t understand the metaphors. Rocky
I love the fact that you are talking about Isaiah here. Hardly anyone ever discusses his prophecies despite the commandment the Lord gave us in 3 Ne 23:1–3 to search his words diligently. His words are only given passing mention at best in church curriculum. Isaiah’s message is exclusively centered on the end of days and the upcoming great and marvelous work. Jesus, Nephi, Jacob, Mormon and Moroni in the Book of Mormon also talked about this upcoming great and marvelous work frequently. The prophecies of the holy prophets will be fulfilled in this regard. An excellent blog that is incredibly scripture-based in its analysis of these prophecies is this one:
http://greatandmarvelouswork.com
Here is the introductory essay that discusses in summary fashion a little about this upcoming great and marvelous work:
http://greatandmarvelouswork.com/the-great-and-marvelous-work/
In thinking about Isaiah, this is a supernal post on how to read Isaiah so we can overcome the strong delusion that Paul talked about in 2 Thes. 2:11–12:
http://greatandmarvelouswork.com/overcoming-the-strong-delusion/
This blog is filled with light and truth and is focused on the word of God and not on the precepts of men. I hope you have time to prayerfully explore the posts here. Happy searching and good luck on your journeys.
I started reading this blog a few months ago. I searched for it due to trying to find anyone out there that had a clue of
what Isaiah’s words meant.
I was intrigued by Anon’s comments, as some of Isaiah became very clear to me beginning in 2001.
I was hopeful that Denver Snuffer would be the answer I was looking for, so I bought Nephi’s Isaiah. It took all of two minutes to realize he was not the answer. I can say that he is closer than any others I have found so far, but he is not quite there.
Sadly, I am the only one I know that can understand him. (at least a few chapters that is)
I am not a prophet and have neither seen God, Christ nor angels.
I am in the process of writing a book about it, but I have been hoping to find someone – anyone that has already done so correctly so I don’t have to, but it just doesn’t seem to exist.
The key to understanding 1st Nephi 20 is verse 3. If you don’t get that, the rest of the chapter is all a guess.
I wish I could find someone to help me write the book so it would finally be done, then I could go on with life. It’s all I’ve been able to think about for the last fifteen years.
I love the book of Mormon. I just finished reading it for the third time since November 30th 2015.
I’ve been able to quote the whole chapter of 1st Nephi 20 since 2001. It has become a part of me.
The commentary on Isaiah has already been written and it’s now easy to understand. It was written back in 1992 by Robert Smith. All of the verses even the most difficult ones are easy to understand in his commentary. The commentary is out of print but I have one I can send electronically if you want a copy. IT54
Greetings iterry54.
Thank you for your offer to send me Robert Smith’s commentary. I would appreciate that. Just a few verses in 1st Nephi 20 and or 21 will prove to me if he truly understands or not. Please send it to rjds44@aol.com
I hope this is it!
Thanks again.
To Anonymous Bishop:
When I found your blog it immediately captured my attention. The spirit of prophecy was your most recent topic. I was intrigued due to the fact that I have been obsessed with Isaiah for the last fifteen years. I understand Isaiah differently than anyone else. I felt that while I was going through my experience of understanding his words in a few chapters that I must have had the spirit of prophecy for a time. But just the day before this Easter, I had an insight on that concept as well. I now see it quite differently.
In Revelations 19:10 it states that the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy. Nephi says that Isaiah is plain unto all those that are filled with the spirit of prophecy.
The book of Mormon is another testament of Jesus Christ. It contains witness after witness from Lehi to Nephi, Jacob, Isaiah,…King Lamoni and his parents, too many to list here all the way through to Mormon and Moroni. On the title page it says that it was written by way of commandment, and also by the spirit of prophecy and of revelation.
So, I’m thinking that if it was written by the spirit of prophecy, it therefore is the spirit of prophecy.
Nephi’s comment is focused on being “filled” with the spirit of prophecy. That would be the key here.
And the reason why is because you cannot understand Isaiah without the book of Mormon (at least in 1st Nephi 20 & 21) due to the fact that Isaiah spoke in poetic riddles and the keys to those riddles are only found in the book of Mormon. That’s why Nephi said they would be understand in the last days because it requires the book of Mormon.
You stated that Jesus said ALL those that have the spirit of prophecy will easily understand Isaiah’s words. I respectfully disagree. I think whoever has the book of Mormon has the spirit of prophecy. I however do not believe that they are filled with it.
I think you’re onto something here and make some good points. I’d only mention that just because we have a book written by the spirit of prophecy does not mean we have the testimony of Jesus or the spirit of prophecy by default. Specifically the testimony from Jesus that we are His and He vouches for us. The other thought I’d throw out there is that I think much of the Book of Mormon (because it is written by the spirit of prophecy) is misunderstood by many in the church. Prophets like Nephi sought to teach a “simple” doctrine like the doctrine of Christ and after several chapters he seems to lament that the people just aren’t getting it and the spirit stoppeth his utterance. I’d assume they / we aren’t getting the deeper messages bc we may not have this spirit of prophecy. Perhaps we get glimpses and the spirit touches our understanding but my understanding is that the spirit of prophecy or the testimony of Jesus is what one receives only after being in his presence. Thanks for your thoughts!
Bishop, I think maybe I wasn’t clear enough while trying to make my point. (unfortunately I do have trouble with that occasionally) But what I was trying to point out is that all of those people (prophets and others) written by and about in the book of Mormon all had a sure witness or “testimony” of Jesus Christ therefore the book of Mormon IS the testimony of Jesus by way of “the spirit of prophecy” which IS the book of Mormon. And when we know it’s true and follow its teachings we can rest assured that we will enter into His presence.
Also, in reference as to what you said about being in the presence of Jesus. He said in 3rd Nephi that not at any time would he manifest himself unto the gentiles but only by the Holy Ghost. (it is my understanding that Joseph Smith was a descendant) I do believe that we could see angles, but I’m thinking that if we are not direct descendants chances are that it won’t be until the judgment seat of Christ that we will have that privilege.
I agree that most members of the church do not understand much of what the book of Mormon has to offer them. It contains everything we need to be able to prepare for the last day. Sadly, most take it for granted. I am consumed with it.
The book of Mormon teaches us faith, gives examples on how to repent, (which if we follow happens) and explains what we must do to receive the Holy Ghost and have his constant companionship to teach us and guide us through to the end.
Again, Nephi taught that we must must be “filled” with the spirit of prophecy and in order to be filled, we must constantly consume.
It is a privilege to correspond with you!
Hello RJD, did you get that information I sent to you? I haven’t heard back from you and so I wonder if it got to you. IT54
My question is, why doesn’t one of these many modern prophets use Joseph Smith’s seer stone?
It’s obvious – since they aren’t prophets/seers the seer stone wouldn’t do a thing for them. It would be as dark as Egypt as Joseph would say.
Some might think that the comment was racist I just wrote. When Joseph was translating, someone changed the seer stone in his hat for a different stone. He looked in the hat and couldn’t see anything and so he said “It’s as dark as Egypt”. Anyway, it wasn’t meant as a racist comment only that it was dark and didn’t see anything – that is the point.
The prophets/seers that are sustained by members haven’t been chosen as prophets and seers. 12 men can lay their hands on a man, ordain him, take him to the Lord, and say – Lord! here is your prophet. It doesn’t work that way. The way a true prophet is called is the Lord starts talking to them. That hasn’t happened in our day because according to D&C 101 the parable of the Nobleman the current bunch became business men and forsook the work of the Lord. You see that today in building malls and other profit making adventures.
To Anonymous Bishop:
I haven’t read through all of your blogs, but the few that I have you have spoken much about Isaiah. I can see that you are truly aware of the importance of understanding his words. As I commented earlier in this blog that I am the only one I know that can understand him and would like to find someone to help me write a book about it, I was wondering if you’d be interested in helping with that. (When you come to realize that I am speaking the truth that is). I can see you have a way with words and are much more eloquent than I. If you are interested, please email me. Please just read the few posts I have made here earlier (they begin on April 20th) and you will have my email address. Thanks in advance for at least considering it!
RJD
I love my husband’s understanding and steadfastness in studying for understanding the words of Isaiah and in reading the Second testament of Jesus Christ. Right now however, he needs everyone’s prayers to ascend up to God in his behalf. Thank you so much to all those who help in this. For everyone though, may God always be with us and we with him.
I hope your husband is okay. Prayers his way.